Into the Gamescape - Show 15
April 10th, 2007 by MikeAnother action packed, fun filled, and waffle-tastic episode of “Into The Gamescape”.
This week, we discuss the games night we had recently, talk about Baycon, introduce the new feature “The Gamescape Decathalon” and we all troop off the the Grogscape where we discuss “Combat Commander:Europe”
April 10th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Hey, guys, just wanted to reply to your hesitance to play Age of Steam, because it might be too heavy. Well, having just started playing the game, I just wanted to chime in and say that it’s actually not as heavy as its reputation. I would say it’s comparable to Power Grid, and certainly not as difficult to grasp as Reef Encounter, which you seem to enjoy.
The weight issue comes from its unforgiving nature, which _is_ justified. I personally haven’t had a problem with it, myself. If you just play somewhat conservatively your first few games, and know that you’ve got to be narrowing the gap between your income and your dept on every turn, you should be fine.
Can’t wait to hear about CC:E. I’ve been playing a few scenarios and haven’t quite grokked (grogged?) everything just yet, so I’m interested to hear your thoughts.
- Jake
April 11th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Just listened to the show - excellent banter folks - some of the best ever. Looking forward to Baycon - We can definitely have a game of Settlers Mike!
April 11th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Another excellent show, guys. Especially enjoyed the CC:E session report. I’m undecided about whether to get this or not, and the random element you went on about is slightly off-putting. I do like card-driven wargames (I’ve gone from Twilight Struggle to Shifting Sands and Paths of Glory is next on the list), but in these games you have a choice of what to play the card for (event, ops, replacements etc) which can mitigate a bad card draw to a certain extent - I can just see my son’s face if I wiped out his best unit & leader with a single card! Anyway, looking forward to more CC:E reports, and have a splendid time in Exeter - I’m jealous.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:13 am
Hey guys, fantastic show. That revved up intro really cracked me up, I hope you keep that.
You guys really have a good thing going with this podcast. You’ve taken it into territory that nobody else is doing. The Grogscape was a nice addition, and Decathalon sounds like it should be cool. Above all, you guys sound like you are having FUN on the show and your enthusiasm for the games is contagious.
That’s it, that’s all I have to say…. just keep up the good work, and we’ll keep listening.
DC
April 12th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Hi Guys,
Yet again thanks for all the great feedback. We really do have fun doing the podcast and coming up with the ideas for the segments
.
Jake - We are hoping to bring Age of Steam to the table at Baycon. We will let you know how we get on in the next podcast. Thanks for the advice. I don’t think Si was able to read this before he left so maybe Mike and I will have a slight advantage
.
Nick - See you at Baycon. I am on for a game of Settlers.
Norman - I will preface this comment with the point that I don’t regularly play war games. I did however watch part of the game we reported on. Whilst the random element does influence the game I felt that this reflected the nature of war. My view was that the realism outweighed the disappointment of the change in luck. Do you fully commit your troops and have no backup? Or do you have a more tentative plan allowing for unforeseen situations - but not quite such a good attack? Let us know if you do play and how you get on.
Dan - The intro was all Mike’s idea. It did work well.
We are all at Baycon for the next few days - so if we don’t answer any queries it’s because we are busy playing games. You can’t get a better excuse than that.
Thanks for all the feedback - we really do appreciate it.
Later
Paul
April 19th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Hey guys, just wanted to make a quick comment and say I love the show. Like Dan said above, you guys seem to be having fun and it comes across on the podcast. It is sometimes nice to hear that you guys have the same gaming group dynamics as my gaming group does. There does seem to be always one player that takes forever on their go. We’ve learned to live with it and just double the time it takes to finish a game.
One question, I’m a pretty rules-light gamer who likes their theme over a deep rulebook. Since you guys are just starting the wargame road, any suggestions on a wargame I might like?
Andrew
April 20th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Hi Andrew
A good question but a difficult one! I’m the Gamescape’s resident rules reader and like heavy games so I may not be the best person to answer
but here’s my opinion as a fellow wargames newbie - obviously I can only comment from the perspective of the games we’ve played so far. I’ll also put it to the listeners in our next show to gather some opinions from more experienced grognards!
I’d say that three games stand out so far for their excellent rulebooks - Combat Commander: Europe, Action Front: Watchtower and (the as yet unplayed by Mike and I) A Victory Lost. In my (very limited!) experience it seems to me that in wargames theme = rules, that is the more theme you want the more rules you’ll need!
Neither the CC:E nor the AVL rulebook is short or light by Euro standards but they are both well laid out, clearly explained and easy to get to grips with, which to me are the most important things. For example, as I recall the ASL Starter Kit #1 rulebook has fewer pages than Combat Commander: Europe’s but the latter is much easier to understand - so short isn’t always good! AF:W is a lighter game, with fewer rules, which I think does what it sets out to do very well - so it may well be a good place to start.
I’ll also throw in Hammer of the Scots as another game that I’ve enjoyed which wasn’t particularly hard to get to grips with.
As a starting point, it might be an idea to download the CC:E rulebook from the GMT website. That will give you a good idea of whether it’s something you’d be interested in exploring or whether it’s too rules heavy.
As new wargamers, the complexity of their rulebooks is one of the major factors in which games have and haven’t made it to our table so far. As we mentioned in a previous show ‘Victory in the Pacific’ failed the ‘rules test’, as has ASL Starter Kit #1. Which isn’t to say they’re bad games, it’s just that at this stage in our wargaming careers we haven’t been able to get enough of an understanding of them to play. I’m still hopeful of getting to grips with these plus Breakout Normandy, Bitter Woods, Europe Engulfed and the others once we’ve got a bit more experience.
Anyway I hope that helps a bit! Can anybody else with more experience help Andrew out? What wargames would you recommend that are rules light but theme rich?
Later!
Si
April 20th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Andrew / Si
I agree about A Victory Lost - it’s taken a classic system, brought it up to date and includes a great rulebook for a very reasonable price - my son and I found it easy to pick up. If/when I can master Vassal, I’ll be on for a PBEM game of it soon (if anyone fancies it).
Hammer of the Scots or Crusader Rex are good introductory card-driven block games which are easy to learn and quick to play - we enjoy both. A step up from these is Shifting Sands, and the new version of the rules have just been published on the web at MMP, so these are worth a download to see if you like them before buying the game.
Personally speaking, probably the hardest to get to grips (apart from ASL of course) with would be impulse games such as Storm Over Arnhem or Monty’s Gamble - again rules for MG are downloadable from MMP to give you an idea of what you’re getting in to before you buy.
Hope this helps.
Norman
April 26th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Loved the Sweet tribute you had as an intro. Most enjoyable.
As is Into The Grogscape. I’ve come into gaming from the other end, namely from the hexes - heavy rules - counters with NATO symbols on. I’ve found that the rules tend to have many similarities (e.g. are Zones Of Control hard or soft) so once you get the concept from one, it is much easier to recognise in others.
So, keep up the wargames - and good luck.
May 3rd, 2007 at 10:24 pm
(A pedant writes) We’ve all had the sad experience of being just one game turn short of success, but I didn’t understand the problem you described in TtR:E. If you laid enough trains to trigger the end of the game, everyone including you would have had one last turn, so you would have had a chance to place the station you needed. Are you missing a rule, or am I missing the point?
Like the show! Keep it up, and maybe see you at Manorcon.
May 5th, 2007 at 7:00 am
John, I’m a muppet!
Now that you say it, I realise I played it wrong, which is wierd, as I have not played it wrong before, I just must have got confused that one time!
I won then!! Whoo hoo!!